Hawk & Owl Trust

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Comment by Dan Carrington on January 31, 2011 at 19:01

Hi Alexander

Some interesting points,especially regards presence of humans preventing predators returning to site of the multiple kills-tendancy is remove killed lambs so probably never know if predator would have returned.

I must disagree with the comment regarding' lazy farmers'-yes it is the farmers responsibilty but many small farms do not havelarge outbuildings to keep their stock safe or cannot afford to keep livestock in 24hrs day-fields need to be grazed after all.Have used electric fences as a deterrant but foxes still find a way in.

The farmers i know don't shoot foxes indiscrimanately but if livestock is taken then the culprit is culled as so much money is spent on feeding and looking after their livestock-maybe current agricultural policy is to blame especially the subsidy system which over the years has made it economically viable for farmers to have more livestock than was sustainable.

Anyway,thanks for your comments.

Comment by Alexander Batten-Phelps on January 29, 2011 at 22:14

Dan when it comes to the kill frenzy mindset of the predator I often think that its a specific evolved measure in many to ensure that they kill at least something when attacking a herd/group based species. However when in confined environments that humans keep animals in the kill frenzy operates at a much increased effectiveness than it normally would, because the prey have no escape point. Thus your mink or fox might kill several times the number it would normally be expected to be able to kill.

Further many will overkill and then remove the extra food and store it in stashes (though from what I've read they don't always remember/reuse all the stashes so there is still some loss here). However I think that again we have to bring the human element in and I suspect many times a fox or mink might return to the site only to find the humans present to defend what is left after the kill. The result being that the predator first can't get at the remaining kills and also probably learns that in such encounters there isn't any point in making a return to the kill site because the remaining food is going to be protected now.


As for the subject of wild predators killing human livestock I think, personally, its a lazy farmer who blames the predator for the kill. Yes any farmer who finds his stock being killed will feel a need for vengeance against the killer, but once the moment passes they should also recognise that the prey animals killed were under their protection and its a reflection of a failing in their keeping rather than a fault of the predator.

Comment by Dan Carrington on January 29, 2011 at 21:37

I completely agree with his viewpoint on the role of predators in an ecosystem and how valuable they are.I must diagree with the point he makes that 'predators only kill for food'-this is generally the case but have witnessed a single fox indiscriminately killing 6 lambs in one night but only feeding on one whilst leaving the rest to rot in the field;and also seen evidence of a minks killing spree in a chicken coop-all this aside,a very intersting clip-wish i could of heard the full talk.I believe education is the most important aspect of predator conservation-we need to get away from all the old ideas and scary folktales associated with predators-have had many a run in with our local Racing Pigeon Enthusiasts over the local pair of Peregrines-even stopped one member from shooting the bird on the nest-i admit that some pigeons are taken but this is part of the risk they take and more than likely the injured/slower birds that are taken-anyway thats another discussion.

On the subject of predators i must recommend another web forum called Tooth and Claw which deals with the role of all predators and our relationship to them.

Comment by stephen cummings on January 12, 2011 at 21:31

Back in November, during the lunch break at the North England Raptor Forum conference I shot this talking head piece with Dr. John Edwards of The Hawk and Owl Trust. Essentially, it's a condensed version of the talk he gave.

Comment by stephen cummings on January 12, 2011 at 21:27